Two armchairs and a side table set the stage for a conversation between retired U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor and her former clerk, now Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law professor, Marci Hamilton. As they spoke, nearly 300 women lawyers from North and South Carolina dined, listened, laughed, and applauded.
Justice O'Connor and Former Law Clerk, Marci Hamilton
Before the conversation began, SCWLA President Jenny Horne welcomed the group. She pointed out that NCAWA has hosted Justice Ginsburg, and now that SCWLA has hosted Justice O’Connor, it will be North Carolina’s turn to invite Justice Sonia Sotomayor next. Jenny thanked the early fighters for women’s rights who “left the ladder down” for the current generation of women lawyers to climb. She also expressed hope that today’s women law students, who are fifty percent of all law students, will in due time become half of all practicing lawyers, and half of all judges and Supreme Court justices. Tara Shurling gave the invocation, and Barbara Barton introduced the guest of honor.
SCWLA President, Jenny Horne, Waits to Welcome the Group
Confirmation
The Supreme Court confirmation process was the first topic of conversation. Justice O’Connor told how, before her confirmation hearing, she met influential senators, including the then-Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Strom Thurmond. When she met him at his Senate office, he said, “Now where is it you’re from? Arizona? I don’t think we’ve ever met.” At that point, Senator Thurmond called President Reagan, who had nominated Justice O’Connor for the Supreme Court. As she retold the Senator’s side of the phone conversation: “Mr. President? Now, I have this woman in my office. I think you nominated her. Do you really want me to see if I can get her confirmed? (pause) Yes, Mr. President.” Once he knew President Reagan really meant the nomination, Senator Thurmond worked to support her confirmation.
At Justice O’Connor’s confirmation hearing, television cameras and reporters were seated “fifteen deep. More than Watergate.” And although the hearing was “a nightmare” for her, the senators loved it because it put them on television for free. The Senate might have allowed the hearing to last forever – “I would still be there today,” Justice O’Connor said – except that Nancy Thurmond held a 3 p.m. tea that everyone wanted to attend, so they had to wrap it up. Justice O’Connor asked Nancy Thurmond, who was in the audience at the dinner, to stand. Justice O’Connor gave her the credit for getting the Senate to end the hearing and confirm the nomination.
OurCourts.org
So many activities keep Justice O’Connor busy since stepping down from the Supreme Court, she “flunked retirement!” One of these projects is her interactive civics education website, OurCourts.org. “You wouldn’t think an old lady like me would be into internet gaming,” she joked. One game on the website allows the user to navigate a hypothetical First Amendment case through an appeal before a virtual U.S. Supreme Court that happens to include five women justices!
The idea for an educational website was sparked when Justice O’Connor became concerned by outcries over “activist judges.” She believes this criticism of “activism” stems from misunderstanding the meaning of “judicial independence,” and proper civics education could help. (She commended South Carolina for requiring civics in high school.)
Merit Selection
Justice O’Connor believes judges should not be elected. She says the framers of the Constitution intentionally set up the federal judicial branch to be appointed, not elected. The framers’ reasoning is in the Federalist papers: judges must be free to make decisions based on the Constitution and laws, without fear of retribution from the other branches. Most of the original states set up their state judiciaries to have appointed judges, until Andrew Jackson came along. (“He saved the nation, but didn’t save the judiciary’s independence.”) First Georgia began electing judges, and the concept spread to other states. Justice O’Connor is concerned about the millions of dollars in campaign contributions in a recent Illinois appellate court campaign, which could influence case results by creating judicial bias, as in the West Virginia case of Caperton v. A.T. Massey Coal Co., Inc., 129 S. Ct. 2252 (2009). She now wants to persuade states that elect judges to change their judicial selection process to something like Arizona’s current process of merit selection and retention.
Justice O'Connor Discusses Her Causes
Alzheimer’s Disease
Justice O’Connor’s husband has Alzheimer’s disease. She retired because he now needs full-time care, and most of their family is in Arizona. After retiring, she has served on a national commission to study Alzheimer’s and make recommendations to Congress. She concluded that we need to get together as a nation to get funding for research and improve treatment for Alzheimer’s. “We did it for tuberculosis. We’ve made headway with AIDS. We have to concentrate on this.”
National Parks
In retirement, Justice O’Connor has also served on a national commission on the national parks. She called the parks “incredible” and “America’s greatest treasure.” Unfortunately, she says they are not protected well enough or supported economically enough to maintain them. Justice O’Connor recommended Ken Burns’ television series The National Parks: America’s Best Idea.
Justice O'Connor Answers Questions from the Crowd
Questions and Answers
Question 1. A request for Justice O’Connor’s advice to women law students and young women lawyers.
Work hard and become part of your community. Don’t just work by yourselves. Lawyers have skills. We know how to make things work. Think what effect you can have if you work together with your community.
Question 2. Was there ever a moment when Justice O’Connor was surprised by how far she had come?
When President Reagan called Justice O’Connor and said he wanted to nominate her to the Supreme Court, she was “shocked” because at the time, it was “inconceivable” for a woman to be on the Supreme Court. As she put it, “It took 191 years. You don’t exactly anticipate that.”
Question 3. A request from a lawyer in the Charlotte area for advice on how to change a system of judicial elections to merit selection.
“Put together some citizens, preferably some with some clout,” Justice O’Connor said. Voters want to keep their right to vote, and they can, in a system of merit selection plus retention elections. “Get judges in there and see how they do. If you don’t like them, vote them out,” she said. “That’s how you sell it.”
Question 4. How can a woman lawyer who is close to retirement respond to young women who think most of the battles for women’s rights have been won?
“It’s true — women have had to fight,” said Justice O’Connor. There was a big push to get the vote in the early twentieth century, but after that, women didn’t vote in big numbers. Next, women pushed for changes to hiring discrimination laws in the 1960s, and now, “we’ve relaxed again.” However, “when women decide there’s something they want, they’ll go get it.”
Question 5. How does a woman lawyer who is also a mother maintain balance?
“I wish I had the answer. It is so hard to be working, as a lawyer or as anything, and care for children.” Justice O’Connor said that when she was raising her children, it was hard to find the time even to go to the hairdresser or get together with friends. “There’s no real answer, other than to realize it’s all worth it.” She loves being a grandparent; it’s “better than being a parent.”
Conclusion
Justice O’Connor wrapped up by telling the women lawyers of North and South Carolina, “You’re all doing a good job. You have two wonderful states. But there are not enough women in your legislatures!” Laughter followed, along with a standing ovation.
–Eve Ross, McNair Law Firm
[...] dinner and discussion. As the Briefcase (the blog of the South Carolina Women Lawyers Association) reports, there was a wide-ranging discussion, including Justice O’Connor’s criticism of [...]